Using Comedy to Break Through – Not Punch Down, with Mark and Bill of CoolCoolCool Productions | Hello Merge Tag Ep. 43
“Think more about the message you’re trying to get across and then make the humor something that brings people in instead of pushing people away.”
I met Mark Kendall and Bill Worley at Netroots this year and was super excited to invite them on the pod.
They’re doing something very unique in our space — using comedy, intentionally, to win hearts and change minds.
Their firm, CoolCoolCool Productions, is an Atlanta-based production company and boutique agency that uses comedy to encourage civic engagement and foster community.
Their videos have racked up tens of millions of views across social media. They’ve been featured on NPR and in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, and named “Best Reason to Laugh” by Atlanta Magazine.
I went to a session they ran at Netroots, and every example they shared hit harder than the last. Thoughtful, smart, hilarious work—designed to move people.
Throughout our conversation, we talked about:
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their origin story
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the importance of finding joy, even in dark places
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why embracing specificity matters if you want to change hearts and minds
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how their process works
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the advice they’d offer to campaigns looking to use humor effectively
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and more
Listen to the full episode right here, or wherever you stream podcasts.
Find all episodes at HelloMergeTag.com or wherever you stream podcasts.
Links
Big thanks to our sponsors:
Civic Shout. Learn more about the great work they’re doing to help Democratic campaigns and progressive nonprofits build their lists ethically at civicshout.com/partners.
Episode Transcript
This transcript was automatically generated and has not been copy-edited. While it can serve as a helpful guide to our conversation, it may contain errors or omissions. For the most accurate representation, we recommend listening to (or watching) the full episode.
Josh Klemons: I met Mark Kendall and Bill Worley at Netroots this year and was super excited to invite them on the pod. They’re doing something very unique in our space using comedy intentionally to win hearts and change minds. Their firm CoolCoolCool Productions, and that’s one word if you’re wondering, is an Atlanta based production company and boutique agency that uses comedy to encourage civic engagement and foster community. Their videos have racked up tens of millions of views across social media. They’ve been featured on NPR and in the Atlanta Journal uh Atlanta Journal Constitution and named Best Reason to Laugh by Atlanta Magazine. I went to a session they ran at Netroots and every example they shared hit harder than the last thought, smart, hilarious work designed to move people.
Josh Klemons: So Mark and Bill, thanks so much for coming on the pod today. Let’s start at the beginning. How did cool cool productions come about? Tell us your origin story.
Mark Kendall: Oh yeah. Well, first off, Josh, thanks so much for having us and thanks for that super kind intro. That’s super fun.
Josh Klemons: Yeah. Hell yeah. Hell yeah.
Mark Kendall: Yeah. Yeah. Um, great question in terms of how Cool Cool Cool started. Um, you know, Bill and I both were comedians in the Atlanta area. We had, you know, been friends and known each other through comedy for a long time. You know, I’ve known Bill for probably about 15 years at this point. And um, you know, we were working on a a particular comedy show together where I got the, you know, great privilege to work on a video with Bill and I got to see him direct and shoot and edit and I’m like, “Yo, this guy’s amazing.” And so I asked him like, “Hey, Bill, would you want to do another video?”
Mark Kendall: And he fortunately he was like, “Yes.” And so, uh, we shot a sketch about, uh, the lack of public transportation in Atlanta, uh, and the challenges that Atlanta has faced in public transportation spreading to the suburbs. Uh, so we shot that video. It was a great time, and the world shut down, like within the next couple weeks.
Bill Worley: It was February 2020 when we Yeah.
Josh Klemons: Oh, nice.
Mark Kendall: Yeah. Yeah. It may have been the last weekend in February, I want to say, that we shot that.
Bill Worley: Yeah.
Josh Klemons: Well,
Bill Worley: Yeah.
Mark Kendall: And so like by the time, you know, we had it edited and things like that. We were all in our homes. Uh but eventually we put it out later that summer, it got a lot of great traction. And I guess just to condense the story a little bit, we kept doing it. And then people really appreciated our brand of humor and how we blended elements like you know civic engagement speaking specifically to the issues um you know touching uh Atlanta uh and it eventually just out of necessity we had to create the production company.
Mark Kendall: So, I might be leaving details out, but yeah, I was like, I think now’s the time to tell Bill this podcast, you know, to share, you know,
Bill Worley: I’ve never heard this story, Mark. Oh, yeah. Mark Kendall is such like an epic amazing talent and a legend in Atlanta and uh just such an amazing creative. And so, like Mark said, we met doing comedy. And the the show that he mentioned earlier was called Magic and Bird. And it was a really hilarious show our friend John put together that was Magic Johnson and Larry Bird having a rivalry and just the silliest stuff.
Mark Kendall: Oh, yeah.
Bill Worley: And I’ll never forget the moment Mark Kendall asked me if I wanted to do more videos because I was like, “Oh my god, absolutely.” Um, and I come from a background, you know, so I I did comedy and I I worked at agencies for a while and doing like commercial and video work. And the same time I was doing that, I was doing improv comedy and a lot of really crappy sketches for years and years and years.
Bill Worley: And it took, I think, going through all of that to get to the point where working with somebody like Mark, kind of honing your voice, honing those skills, and we just kind of got together at I think just a magical time of February 2020. and uh uh we’re able to really make it work and it’s been an absolute um ride and really fun and getting to meet people like you Josh and uh it’s a real honor to be here to talk with you and and to do what we do.
Josh Klemons: Yeah. Hell yeah. No, that’s awesome. Um, a lot of your work tackles really heavy topics. You all deal with racism and disinformation and voter suppression. How do you balance humor with gravity when the subjects are so serious? And I Let’s start there.
Mark Kendall: Well, I think humor is a really can be a really helpful way to deal with, you know, more difficult topics because they are difficult. I think you know there’s tension when you bring something into a room whatever the you know the difficult topic is like vaccine hesitancy like why haven’t you gone to get your vaccination stuff like that’s very personal um you know can really like get at you emotionally uh and so all that to say is that tensions can be raised and so I think that what humor allows you to do is it allows you to diffuse some of
Mark Kendall: that tension without having to sacrifice any of the information you know what I mean like So you can you can raise tension, use a joke to diffuse that tension, and then because that tension is diffused, you can kind of like keep the conversation moving forward as opposed to being like, “Oh, we introduced this tension, now I got to back up.” Like the way that we like to use comedy cool is to use humor as a tool to like forward that conversation, you know, uh to to progress that conversation forward.
Josh Klemons: I’m curious if you get do you get push back both in the room but also like in the world like in the comments. Maybe you’re healthy enough to not read the comments. Um, but do people find that it’s like inappropriate, quote unquote, to use comedy when you’re dealing with heavy subjects, or does comedy just cut right through the b******* and let people like have real conversations about harder topics? Like what’s as somebody who like actively works in this, like what’s what’s your take on that?
Bill Worley: You know, I I feel like it’s we’ve just lucked out.
Bill Worley: We’ve had a lot of stuff do really well. And you know, Mark, I’m trying to brainstorm. There’s not a comment that keeps me up at night that I can think of. And and I think just like Mark said, that humor diffuses a lot of, you know, uh uh people coming at and just attacking a concept and idea because they’re seeing the humor. They’re being more open. Luckily, we haven’t had to deal with that at all. I’ve dealt with people being mad at jokes I’ve made on stage that didn’t have anything to do with politics and had people come up in my face after a show, but I’ve never, knock on wood, to my knowledge, Mark, I don’t think we’ve had a lot of push back on our stuff.
Mark Kendall: Yeah. No, I I agree. And I think it might be helpful for us to clarify too is that we also do kind of like a particular style of comedy. meaning, you know, we will go straight at difficult topics, but we’re always we try to be careful about like, well, who’s the target of the joke or what is the target of the joke?
Mark Kendall: So, a lot of times people might hear comedy and think like, oh, you’re going to roast someone or I mentioned vaccines earlier, it’s like, do you roast people that are afraid of like, you know, going to get a vaccine? is like that’s actually what we try really hard not to do is that we, you know, I feel like there’s many different types of comedy. So many of them are vital, but I think a lot of what we try to focus on with our videos is where can we find the joy uh in difficult moments. And I think that that resonates with people. And I think that because we are careful about trying to use joy as, you know, the brand of comedy that we do simultaneously, not intentionally, but simultaneously, it also doesn’t really like lead to a lot of arguments in the comments like that. Um, so I think that might also contribute to it.
Josh Klemons: Yeah, I was going to ask like and obviously I I have not seen your full body of work, but I saw some really solid pieces at Netroots and um I wouldn’t even it wasn’t even a question of punching up or punching down because you were really like punching through.
Josh Klemons: you were really trying to like and I think it would be helpful probably if you gave like describe some of the videos instead of me trying to do it for you like if y’all wanted to like describe maybe um your that the one you did about the Atlanta transportation um or the Bob Ross piece because I think it’s like helpful to have people understand it but yeah do like so much quote unquote comedy especially on Twitter but on the internet in general right now is focused on punching down.
Mark Kendall: Mhm.
Josh Klemons: It’s like finding like uh finding one thing about a person and attacking them for it in politics. Like we see so much negativity that I’m sure a lot of these people think are hilarious, but really what they’re doing is just like destroying the fabric of the universe every day, you know, like every time they log on, it’s like how can I make fun of this person? How can I tear this person down? Um so I am curious like it’s the stuff I saw didn’t involve any people.
Josh Klemons: It involved concepts, right? um do you all have ever get asked to do things about politicians or specific candidates or things or it’s always focused on concepts and then yeah maybe take that as an opportunity to describe a couple of these videos
Mark Kendall: Sure.
Josh Klemons: that I had the uh got got to watch at networks.
Mark Kendall: Yeah. Um, well, you were asking about the MARTA video that we had described earlier, so I can maybe describe that one to start.
Josh Klemons: Sure.
Mark Kendall: Um, so, uh, you know, uh, we’re based out of Atlanta. Our public transportation system is called MARTA. uh historically uh is had an issue with spreading to the suburbs. Uh a lot of the root causes of that are racism. And so a common narrative that you would hear if you grew up in Atlanta was like, “Oh, I don’t want uh martyr I don’t want this, you know, the train to come to my town because I don’t want crime to come to my neighborhood, which is like code for black.” And
Josh Klemons: Clear.
Mark Kendall: so the sketch that we did was uh we were like in a fictional version of Atlanta where all of the sudden Martya finally came to Cobb County. Um and uh it’s the the live version of the show that actually had done years before. It actually kind of came out of a se separate thing quick tangent was like when the Braves moved from you know the city of Atlanta to Cobb County I was just like oh I bet now they will build Marta to Cobb County. that didn’t happen in that way. But anyway, so little side thing for people that are listening that are from Atlanta.
Josh Klemons: Okay.
Mark Kendall: Anyway, but uh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh Klemons: I went to college in Georgia, so I I didn’t ride Marta often, but you know, we made it into town here and there for sure.
Mark Kendall: Uh but for the purposes of the video, we said it in a fictional version of Atlanta where hey, Martya all of a sudden did come to this suburb of Cobb County. And so now that’s finally happened.
Mark Kendall: We are finally taking black crime to Cobb County. and we’re going to describe step by step like what would actually be involved uh with uh oh I don’t know what happened with my camera here but uh but but uh but yeah we we just started describing step
Josh Klemons: Yeah, your camera got You’re on fire, man. Like, this video is so good. Google Meet can’t handle it.
Mark Kendall: by step what would actually be involved in someone hopping on a subway system, taking a bus, walking however many miles to get to whoever’s house on the subway, stealing a piano, walking it back to the bus stop, taking
Josh Klemons: It’s still a piano, right? Right.
Mark Kendall: the bus back to the Martyr station. You know what I’m saying? And obviously, as I’m describing this, you’re like, “Oh, well, this is ridiculous.”
Josh Klemons: Right.
Mark Kendall: And I think what was helpful about that is that anyone could see that it was ridiculous.
Josh Klemons: Right.
Mark Kendall: Whether you wanted Martya to be expanded or not. And so I think that that is a way of the comedy in a sense, you know, getting people on the same page, right?
Mark Kendall: It’s like, but then through that you’re like, “Oh, why Right. Yes.
Josh Klemons: Well, I just want to add there there was a line in there that really stuck with me. Before this, all we could do was take our escalator. So, like, you know, it’s like the crime quote unquote like, you know, has Yeah.
Mark Kendall: Yeah. Yeah.
Josh Klemons: like the absurdity on the face of it like just pops through when you like point out like how stupid it is, you know?
Mark Kendall: Yeah. For sure.
Josh Klemons: So, yeah.
Mark Kendall: And so I think it’s just kind of like using humor, using absurdity, one to kind of like diffuse tension, but then also asking the question of like, well, what would we like to see? You know what I mean? like what would it really look like if we really did have, you know, access to public transportation and people really could get from point A to point B?
Bill Worley: All
Mark Kendall: People would not be stealing your pianos. You know what I’m saying?
Josh Klemons: Right.
Bill Worley: right.
Mark Kendall: Like, but it but it would be it it it might be a society that it’s like, “Oh, that might be interesting.”
Bill Worley: Okay.
Josh Klemons: Right.
Mark Kendall: You know? So, uh, a lot of people that enjoy that sketch, I’m sure are also people that maybe were not on board with Martyr, but they could at least watch that sketch and then be a part of the conversation about
Josh Klemons: Right.
Mark Kendall: that sketch.
Josh Klemons: Um, and you mentioned was was that the first video y’all ever worked on? The one in February 2020. So, was that for a client or was that just Cool C cool productions looking for a cool project to work on?
Mark Kendall: Correct. Yeah.
Bill Worley: That was just for fun. Yeah. So I I had seen Mark perform that as part of a oneman show and and very much like Mark like growing up in in Atlanta like there’s that racism that has unfortunately prevented Marta from reaching the suburbs. And it’s a well-known fact. And I the way that that sketch just blasted the absurdity of that while making it um so funny was really um what’s the word I’m looking for?
Bill Worley: Um cathartic for I think an audience and a and a native Atlantan.
Josh Klemons: Okay.
Bill Worley: Um and so you know loved that sketch. I was really nervous honestly when when we decided to shoot that sketch because it’s one of my favorite sketches and I was like we I really want to do it justice and I think we lucked out. We had a great crew. Jenny Whitling’s a friend who drew the board um that uh was representing the path they were taking writing Switch and Change. Uh uh we had a great gaffer. Um, and then the crew was a bunch of improv friends. Um, that just really heightened the the and we saw so much stuff. I think a lot of one of the things that is a uh a great thing about working with improvisers and comedians is we can riff and we can do a lot of good stuff. I could have made that sketch 15 minutes. Of course, no one would probably watch it. It’s still long at four minutes.
Bill Worley: I mean, four minutes, I would not do a sketch today that’s four minutes, but it holds you through four minutes because it has so many layers.
Josh Klemons: Yeah, for sure. Mhm.
Bill Worley: Um, but yeah, that was wildly the first sketch that we shot. And like Mark said, because we shot it end of February, we ended up not releasing it for a while because we just knew it would get buried under, you know, everything else that was going on.
Josh Klemons: And so y’all worked on that on your own, but then like sort of pivoted to becoming like more of an agency than a comedy sort of like you’re not just a comedy production firm, you’re also like an agency, right? You’re you’re working with advocacy organizations. So how did you go from like making one great great video to like telling how did you introduce this idea? like you you sort of have the double cell problem is my guess like folks don’t know that they want to hire a comedy uh team to solve it. So you’re not just selling that y’all are the right people but like that people should be doing this.
Josh Klemons: So yeah, how did you how did you start that process? I’m very curious how you like entered into this like little ecosystem that we all now live in.
Mark Kendall: Yeah, I mean I think we were fortunate in that there were other people in comedy that, you know, gave us opportunities early on that allowed for us to kind of like grow into the space that we’re in now.
Bill Worley: What are
Mark Kendall: So, Bill, I’m reminded of, you know, one of the first people that approached us to work sort of like in the civic engagement space, but like in a slightly different way was Steve Bedau, who uh, you know, was the showrunner at the Daily Show for a long time amongst many other television programs. Uh, you know, he kind of caught wind of our stuff, liked what we were doing, and around the Senate runoff that was happening in Georgia in 2021, you know, he’s like, “Hey, you know, what if y’all did some
Josh Klemons: Mhm.
Mark Kendall: get out the vote content?” And
Josh Klemons: Oh.
Mark Kendall: you know that also did really well um in Atlanta.
Mark Kendall: And it was folks like him approaching us seeing like, “Hey, I like what y’all do with comedy.” And you know, this joyful comedy was very much a powerful kind of like counterprogramming to all the negativity that was uh that that people in Atlanta were just being inundated with like calls, texts, you know, doom and gloom stuff all the time all through people’s feeds. And this is also as we’re going through a pandemic. So this kind of like bright uplifting comedy I think worked really well in that space. But it was people like Steve, you know, saying like, “Hey, I’ve got some funding. Uh, let’s do some videos with this.” And then from that, that attracted more clients. And that attracted more clients. So, um, yeah.
Bill Worley: A lot of it I think was yeah us you know taking the success of that talking to folks Janine Abrams Rebecca Deart at Fair Count are some amazing people that I’m even forgetting how we first connected with them
Mark Kendall: Yes.
Bill Worley: Mark if they reached out to us or we reached out to them.
Bill Worley: um for Anne Kramer who’s a Anne Kramer the human exclamation point uh one of the most amazing people here in Atlanta and a real advocate for the community.
Mark Kendall: I want to say it may have been through Anne Kramer. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah.
Bill Worley: Um and in Ufat over what at the time was at New Georgia Project was another person who was saw the work we were doing and we were able to have that conversation. We’ve been really lucky in that we’ve been able to network and and meet people through this small community of nonprofits and organizations here in Atlanta.
Josh Klemons: Yeah.
Bill Worley: And I think a lot of that has to do like Mark was saying with Georgia being just a real center of the political sphere with Waro and Oaf and the runoff and and you know going for Biden and becoming kind of a purple state, you know, hopefully we can get back there.
Josh Klemons: I I live in Wisconsin. I know the feeling. Well, for sure.
Bill Worley: Yeah.
Bill Worley: Yeah.
Josh Klemons: Yeah. Wisconsin, Georgia, North Carolina. There’s only a few of us left that are truly like, you know, focused on Okay.
Bill Worley: Right.
Josh Klemons: So, it’s an interesting example and I’d love to dig in. So, blank sheet of paper, you have somebody reach out and they’re like, “The goal is turn out the vote. The world is literally falling apart. Co just started. There’s this runoff that literally democracy hangs in the balance of. Um, unfortunately we lost that fight, but like not the runoffs, but you know, a couple years later, but um, blank sheet of paper, how do you start something like that and like walk us through because I think there’s
Bill Worley: Yeah.
Josh Klemons: a lot of campaigns and organizations out there that only see the dark and don’t see like a way out, you know? So, I’d love for you to offer any like advice like what is the process look like to find the comedy in a very dark moment and say, “Okay, but like comedy actually matters uh if you want to reach people in a different way.” Um,
Josh Klemons: so yeah, blank sheet of paper. How did you approach um the Get Out the Vote campaign that you worked on in 20 or 21, excuse me.
Mark Kendall: Yeah, I mean I think a lot of it when we’re starting to work with anyone, a lot of it is listening. Um, so it’s like we realize that we’re the comedy experts, but we’re fortunate enough to work with groups that know their audience really well, that know their messaging really well.
Josh Klemons: Right.
Mark Kendall: So I think a lot of it is just hearing from them like, “All right, what story are you trying to tell? Who are you trying to talk to? what do you want them to ultimately do after seeing a video? You know, so it’s like we realize we can make a lot of things funny, but if it’s not but if we’re not like on the same page and very clear about how to make that audience, you know, and message as impactful as possible, the comedy matters less. So, a lot of it is just like listening to whoever it is that we’re working with to make sure that we’re on the same page about where to even start there.
Mark Kendall: Um, and then I’d also add in terms of just like how you find the comedy in anything, how you find the joy in anything. I think so many cultures is based off of like going through difficult times, trials and tribulations and people find laughter, people find joy.
Josh Klemons: Sure.
Mark Kendall: So this is not anything that’s especially new. you know, we’re just maybe asking you to tap into that in, you know, a slightly different context, which is like, you know, a comedy social media video, you know, where people’s feeds are on fire, as you said. Um, some questions that we might ask sometimes to kind of like try and figure out how to get there are things like, you know, what do you want to see in the world? What do you want people to know? you know uh and that can sometimes be a good starting point because then from there we can find like what are the kernels of joy in this process and from there we can pitch ideas. Now I realize there’s probably more but Bill what what do you think?
Josh Klemons: No, interesting.
Mark Kendall: Yeah.
Bill Worley: Well, I think too I think like just using I think Josh you were talking about like an example of something. So I think a good example that you mentioned earlier was the Bob Ross sketch or like with Fair Count.
Mark Kendall: Oh yeah.
Bill Worley: Fair Count came at us and they’re like, “Hey, gerrymandering going on. Jerry mandering is not a fun topic. How do we make it funny? How do we make it, you know, help educate people about what it means and what it does to their communities? And we said when we brainstormed, you know, we had a couple ideas and one of them was Mark is Bob Ross painting a very happy Atlanta, Georgia and uh showcasing a lot of the things that make Atlanta Atlanta and then you know paintings doing some red lining and describing in his very amazing Bob Ross impression uh about the damage that does. Uh, another thing that we did for that campaign was have a class president sketch. So, we had a a classroom full of actors, um, you know, playing kids in an elementary school and the, uh, kind of jerk kid made it two districts for him and one district was everybody else and he won class president.
Bill Worley: So, we tried to make it, okay, what’s what’s relatable? What’s um what are some fun ways to come at that topic that make it more engaging and help people understand like if this is true what else is true is is an improv and a and a comedic um uh language to try to see okay are there other situations where if we applied what’s happening in the polit political landscape like Mark was saying with robbing uh uh uh people on public transportation. Uh that can help you point out the absurdity of things. Um that’s just one way that we’ve been able to do it. Uh but that can sometimes be a great way to come at adding comedy into otherwise serious topic.
Josh Klemons: Um yeah, let’s talk formats and platforms. Um obviously like a lot of social is actually text first, you know, when we look at like Twitter or blue sky threads. Um and or like also like graphic memes and whatnot. So I am curious like do you think that is video integral to what y’all do?
Josh Klemons: Obviously comedy can happen outside of video, but like is that is your first like art form? Um, do you ever veer outside of it and do you see folks like using nonvideo formats um, effectively in your opinion for this type of work?
Mark Kendall: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think our our primary, you know, thing that we like to do is video. I guess another thing I’ll also add out there that we also do podcasting. We also do live comedic performances as well. But I’d say that, you know, when we’re doing our cool cool thing, it’s primarily video because that’s, you know, I think what we enjoy most. That said though, I mean it’s just like on other gigs, you know, done memes or like videos where it’s like meant to be read, you know, assuming that people are following without any sound on there.
Josh Klemons: All
Mark Kendall: And so those are also very powerful. Uh but, you know, in terms of what we tend to focus on in our day-to-day is video.
Josh Klemons: right.
Bill Worley: I think that comes from us being performers as well in part as you know I think we’re used to being on stage we’re used to being in front of an audience um and and so translating that to a digital audience it was a little bit and I’m a nerd for video and making video selling time I think we’re both big fans that I think you know there’s a lot of writing that we do but as people with improv background, we love to improvise. I think uh video does a is a great medium for that. Um you know, so that’s probably why we focus more in there. But you know, all the all the shout outs to all the great writing going on out there because there’s a lot of
Josh Klemons: I’m also curious though you you actually alluded to this like how like all the videos that I saw at Netroots were like quite long for you know the the Tik Tok world. I mean four minutes you can do a Tik Tok that’s four minutes but um so many Tik Toks these days are shorter.
Josh Klemons: Um, how do you all find length? Like, how do you approach like this new world where folks want to see things that are 30 seconds long, not five minutes long? Um, do you just put long form content out and trust that it’ll find its audience or are you like adapting to that in like different ways?
Bill Worley: You know, it’s funny. I think that original sketch, I would say, Mark, curious what you think. I think I probably 90% of the stuff we do is usually 60 seconds or less in terms of comedy stuff now. And that’s to your point, Josh, like people don’t have the attention spans um to watch a 4-minute video on a on a IG reel or whatever. um a lot has changed in the last five years.
Josh Klemons: Sure.
Bill Worley: So, we’re absolutely, you know, we try to think about in 30 second, 60-cond, sometimes 15-second um increments. Uh unless we’re doing like a a more long form piece, cuz you know, a lot of times, it’s funny, I know we did that four-minute sketch, but a lot of times now we’re trying to even tell clients, no, let’s let’s not do two minutes, let’s do 60 seconds.
Bill Worley: because you sometimes Yeah, definitely.
Josh Klemons: Like clients want you to go longer and you’re like, “No, shorter.” Interesting.
Bill Worley: And I think where that happens a lot with with people is they’re just trying to get a lot in to a message. You know, they’re trying to squeeze a lot of information. And really in in a in a video, you can really maybe get one point across, maybe two points, um, instead of your 17 bullet points. Uh, right. So, it’s it’s just Right.
Josh Klemons: You sound like a person that needs 17 videos, my friend. Right. Exactly.
Bill Worley: Exactly.
Josh Klemons: Exactly.
Bill Worley: Exactly. And it’s like we you want to help as much as possible, but part of that is just, you know, education too, like like learning. We learn from the clients like what they need, what are they trying to do, and we’re teaching them, okay, about our medium a lot of times, like what is most effective in video and in comedy. So, it’s back and forth for sure.
Josh Klemons: Are y’all consulting and like helping clients figure out how to do this on their own or it’s mostly you’re a production company like they’re bringing you in to actually like collaborate and create content? Because I don’t really know again I I keep coming kind of coming back to this. I’ve been in this space a long time. I don’t know anybody else who does comedy first in the progressive space. Like I think y’all are unicorns. Maybe I’m wrong. Like if y’all know other people doing this, like let me know. I know very funny people in our space. I don’t know anybody who’s like comedy first in our space. And I guess that’s like what I found so interesting about what y’all are doing. There’s plenty of like I mean like hell mom Donny’s team melted solids. Like the stuff they’re doing is amazing and some of it is hilarious, but they’re not like a comedy team. They’re a video team using comedy to help their videos cut through. y’all are like comedy first, production second, right?
Josh Klemons: I mean, is that a fair way? Or, you know, comedy first, messaging second, but you’re using them together. So, yeah. Yeah. I guess I’m curious like are y’all bumping into other people in the space that are like living in the this progressive advocacy space as a comedy first um company or firm
Mark Kendall: I would say maybe not so much Comedy First firms, but I mean like there are a lot of folks awesome comedians in Atlanta that uh we make content with or are making their own content uh that is very much uh you know advocating for kinds of really important things and using comedy to do in that way. But I I think Yeah.
Josh Klemons: But they’re doing it like on their own, like not not partnering.
Mark Kendall: But I Yeah.
Bill Worley: right?
Mark Kendall: I I don’t Yeah.
Bill Worley: Yeah. I Yeah. I I wish we had more because I I would like a lot to Mark’s point like there’s a lot of good friends of ours who have been very successful.
Bill Worley: Our friends at St. Andre golf, you know, like a lot of great sketch comedians who love golf started a golf channel. they’ve since like had Tiger Woods on and are just blowing up and but obviously it’s that’s tricky, right?
Josh Klemons: Oh yeah.
Bill Worley: Because if they get too political, they can alienate their sponsors, etc., etc. Um, and they’re great dudes and and all of we share very similar ideologies, but I think uh I haven’t found a lot of folks besides when you think about like the Daily Show or you know Coarrow or kind of the people that are out there doing those type of shows. Um, but if y’all are out there, let’s talk. Anybody that’s doing similar stuff would would absolutely love to talk to y’all and and brainstorm.
Josh Klemons: Hell yeah.
Bill Worley: Um, yeah.
Josh Klemons: Um I sort of stepped on my first question, but do you consult um for clients or it’s really just like partnering with to uh to create content together?
Mark Kendall: Yeah, I I uh we consult Yeah, we we consult with folks that need it.
Mark Kendall: I I mean, ideally for what we do, uh it’s kind of like we’ll concept with a client. We’ll write it, cast it, shoot it, edit it. So, we kind of do the whole thing.
Josh Klemons: Yeah.
Mark Kendall: So if you know if folks are try are interested in like you know getting something that has our brand of comedy is helpful for us to also produce that. But that said we realize like you know that may not always be a fit for what someone needs and there’s so many great organizations out there.
Josh Klemons: Heat.
Mark Kendall: So we’ve also consulted as well even if it’s just something like oh we’re thinking about this idea and we want to think about it comedically. Could you give any thoughts? We’ve done calls like that before and other things too.
Josh Klemons: Yeah.
Bill Worley: Yeah. And we’re both improv teachers.
Mark Kendall: So
Bill Worley: We both taught a lot of improv.
Josh Klemons: All right.
Bill Worley: So, a lot of times we’ll come in and do workshops to kind of like highlight how humor can break things up and make things so much easier, especially with a group of people that don’t know each other, right?
Bill Worley: can really help break the ice. I think one thing that’s tough with people and and Mark alluded to it earlier, I think a lot of times people early on in comedy especially will tend to punch down because it’s just kind of like a a and and it’s just a learning process, right? You’re starting comedy. It’s an easy way to get laughs. It’s kind of like the the quick thing. So, I think a lot of times we’re we’re working with clients and stuff that they might think would be a good joke, we’re like, “Well, let’s think more about the message you’re trying to get across and then make the humor um something that brings people in instead of pushes people away.
Josh Klemons: The reason I ask is because I think there’s a lot more organizations out there than y’all could possibly work with and like you know like and there’s nobody else doing this like like I said like that I know of anyway. So, you know, I think a whole lot of orgs and a whole lot of campaigns like could benefit from understanding how to right not punch down but to like punch through, right?
Josh Klemons: Like using comedy as a way to get at the heart of an issue that can actually like change people’s minds about things. Like I don’t know. I didn’t see polling on how your um Atlanta um you know transportation video did, but my guess is it literally changed some hearts and minds, right? Like there were probably folks who were like we don’t want these uh you know this the subway here and then they saw that you’re like that’s so stupid. Yeah, of course. Like it’s like so dumb. like you know I had this preconceived notion and like you broke through it which is so hard to do in this day and age and comedy is one of those things that can do it. So that’s why I ask in that context. On that front, um, for folks listening, especially those working in campaigns, nonprofits who are curious about using humor, but don’t have any a comedy background, like how would you recommend they approach this? And maybe the answer is take an improv class and, you know, take it from there.
Josh Klemons: But like be you know how how a blank sheet of paper you’re not in the room. How does a nonprofit, a campaign, an organization going through a difficult subject, what’s the first thing they should do if they want to like find that kernel of joy and figure out how to bring that kernel of joy to life through video or any other medium? Like how would you approach that?
Mark Kendall: Yeah. I mean, some things that come to mind for me is, you know, if you’re starting from like a blank sheet of paper, one place that might be fun to start with is just kind of like what what’s a like a perfect scenario look like for you? So, what’s a world where whatever issue it is that you’re dealing with, what’s the the perfect scenario, the rainbows and butterflies and puppy dogs scenario of whatever it is that you’re aiming for? what’s that look like? And then maybe working backwards from there because some of those answers might be, you know, fun comedic sketches that also get people excited about whatever it is that you’re trying to do.
Mark Kendall: So I’ll just uh maybe we could even do as an exercise. Is there some like issue that jumps out to you, Josh? And I’ll do like a comedic rip on it.
Josh Klemons: Well, maybe it’s too dark, but ice in Chicago.
Mark Kendall: Yeah, for for sure. Ice in Chicago.
Josh Klemons: Okay.
Mark Kendall: So it’s just kind of like so it’s just like people are in Chicago and it’s just like what’s an ideal world where it’s like you know ICE isn’t messing with Chicago and instead of like people coming to take people away there’s like amazing connections or something like that. Maybe you think of like a beautiful family reunion where all these amazing, you know, uh, intergenerational connections are happening and there’s music and there’s food. Kind of like the opposite of whatever it is that ice brings that starting with that image or something like that. Like how do you get to that point or explaining how you get to that point could be something very interesting or engaging for an audience. Um, and I would also say like if you’re not in comedy, don’t even necessarily focus on trying to be like funny.
Mark Kendall: just like focus on like what’s interesting to you, what makes you feel joyful or happy and maybe start there because it’s just kind of like I think that you know some people write jokes, some people don’t but at the end of the day if you’re like getting at the truth of something or you know you’re being honest about something, you’re being interesting about something, those are all going to like hit very similar notes and I think be effective in similar ways. So that for me, when you throw that out there, that’s kind of what I think. Um, that’s what comes for me.
Josh Klemons: No, that’s super interesting.
Bill Worley: Yeah.
Josh Klemons: I thought Bill you were gonna jump in, but if not, that’s okay.
Mark Kendall: Oh, yeah.
Bill Worley: Well, I Yeah, I think I just Yes. Anding everything Mark’s saying and I think as you alluded to Yeah.
Josh Klemons: Good. Good improv. Yes. Ending for sure.
Bill Worley: And and Josh, as you do too, I think, you know, taking sketch comedy classes, I’m always going to recommend an improv class for any human of all time.
Bill Worley: A lot of cities have a lot of great comedy scenes and and a good place to to jump in and get started. I would recommend folks do that. I also realized I wanted to shout out C4A which is a center for artistic activism which is another organization that we’ve worked with that is amazing and it’s they not not just comedy that they work on.
Mark Kendall: Oh yeah.
Josh Klemons: Cool.
Bill Worley: But I would say Mark I consider them another organization that’s doing some amazing stuff including comedy for sure. uh that I would highly recommend working with and checking out if you’re not already familiar with them. Um but yeah, I think taking classes like and also looking for inspiration and and if if you do like comedy, look at the sketches that connect with you. And that’s another way you can kind of work backwards from things. Um like look at the premises. What’s what’s going on here? Like Mark said, is it is it are they working from a perfect world? Is there a big character?
Bill Worley: uh like see what you connect with and then see how you could connect those with the topics that you’re in.
Josh Klemons: So, on the flip side of that, and we we talked a little bit about like punching down and whatnot, but what do you think most political or like or advocacy organizations are getting wrong when it comes to them trying to be funny online? Or nobody’s trying enough, so it doesn’t matter. I’ve heard
Bill Worley: Yeah. I mean I it just feels so hateful to me.
Mark Kendall: Yeah.
Bill Worley: I mean, right now there’s a lot of like, you know, I I think people obviously on both sides of the aisle, but the right, you know, really punches hard. And, you know, some of it is like I hate to say that some of it can be funny, but it’s it’s funny in a really dark way. Um, and to your point earlier, Josh, a divisive way where like you get your audience is laughing, everyone else feels like crap. So, um, man, who’s doing it well?
Josh Klemons: Right.
Bill Worley: Because I think the Daily Show, you know, you have Jordan Kipper and folks like that who he has said point blank, I’m not changing anybody’s minds, you know, when he’s going out and doing the gotcha man on the
Josh Klemons: Right.
Bill Worley: street stuff. Uh, that’s funny for me and you know, like, but he knows that’s not going to change hearts and minds.
Josh Klemons: Yeah.
Bill Worley: Um, yeah.
Josh Klemons: Right.
Bill Worley: So, it’s tough to try and find, you know, who’s doing that well. Um, Mark, I don’t know.
Mark Kendall: I I would just say share something is like uh you know embrace like specificity.
Josh Klemons: Sure.
Mark Kendall: you know, um, just like as a comedic thing. So, I don’t know exactly who I’m talking to with this, but it’s like a comedic touch point is like say instead of saying a car, if you say gray 1997 Honda Accord, like spec specifics will always get you further in comedy. And by extension, I think like not being afraid to get really specific about the story that you’re telling and trying to to talk to community as directly as possible.
Mark Kendall: I think that’ll help a lot. So, you know, we just spent a while at the beginning of this podcast talking about Martya and all this stuff. When Bill and I first put that sketch out, I mean, like, we did not expect for it to get like the very broad reception that it did for people outside of Atlanta, but it did because it was so specific and because we were so specific to our particular, you know, situation in Atlanta. Someone in Buffalo could be like, “Oh, well, we’re dealing with such and such. it’s not the same thing, but because we were specific, people are able to like see what you’re going through and then relate to it in some way.
Josh Klemons: H
Mark Kendall: So, you know, just like as a blanket recommendation, I would say like try to be consistent and specific and less concerned about like, you know, oh, did did I get a million views? Because your audience may not really be a million people. You know what I’m saying? Like, I don’t I don’t know who you’re like, you know, like.
Josh Klemons: for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Right there.
Mark Kendall: So instead it might be like oh having a thousand people really love this thing that you did that you talked about in your particular county or whatever and that also has has a lot of value too.
Josh Klemons: Sure.
Mark Kendall: Um so not knowing specifically what someone listening is is uh is working on but that’s just one thing I’d throw out there is is is embrace specificity.
Josh Klemons: I mean, it’s an interesting example, too, cuz like obviously like that video that we talked about is essentially anti-racism. Like really, but that is so broad. But saying like you’re against Atlanta opening up a subway station in this one neighborhood, you know, is like such an easier way to like cut out the legs from like such a big issue.
Mark Kendall: Yeah.
Josh Klemons: Like if you tried to make a video about racism, it might be funny, but there’s no way you’re changing hearts and minds, right? Like it would be a magic video. You’d win a freaking Oscar, but like you were you probably were able to move hearts and minds in that video because it was so specific that you were able to like sort of like topple some things that were on top of it.
Josh Klemons: Um, so I think that’s really good advice. Like the more specific you get, the easier it is to actually like tackle something. And that one thing is definitely interconnected to a lot of other things. And even if the end goal is to like make the world a better place, like start with like opening a MARTA station in a in a neighborhood of Atlanta and like take it from there because like good things
Mark Kendall: Cool.
Josh Klemons: can like filter out from there. I don’t know that that’s what I heard from that. So I really like it. Um yeah, what how can folks keep in touch with y’all moving forward?
Mark Kendall: Yeah. So, um you know, you can reach out to us. Our our website is coolcoolcoolpro.com.
Josh Klemons: Okay.
Mark Kendall: Uh you can reach us there. You can also check us out on LinkedIn. Coolc cool productions. Um, Mark Kendall, Bill Worly, we’re both on LinkedIn. Uh, my Instagram, Mark Kendall comedy. That’s a great way to get in touch with me.
Mark Kendall: Um, Bill, anything else? Um,
Josh Klemons: Are y’all doing comedy on LinkedIn?
Bill Worley: Yeah, it’s, you know, like keeping up.
Josh Klemons: Is that happening? I I didn’t come across that in my research.
Bill Worley: It’s so funny because so much of what we do is for people’s social media channels, but sometimes it’s like keeping up your own social media thing.
Josh Klemons: Oh, I know it.
Bill Worley: We do I do have we do have friends that are like y’all are the only reason I go on LinkedIn.
Josh Klemons: Hell yeah. I’m on LinkedIn all the time. I’ll definitely connect with you.
Bill Worley: Yeah. Yeah. Well, we we need to be more on there, too.
Josh Klemons: That’s awesome.
Bill Worley: like and and our names Bill at cool cool pro or Mark at cool cool pro just you know holler at us and I think a big thing that we try to do is like you know is connect other people like you’re doing Josh it’s such a huge thing and I think a big thing for us and why we’ve been successful what we do is is life’s all about relationships and the quality of your relationships so I
Josh Klemons: Mhm.
Bill Worley: think any any way you know even if we’re not the right fit for organization if we can connect you to some other friends or other folks that can help. Um, we’re always happy to have a conversation and I think, you know, using this comedy and thinking about things the way Mark was highlighting specificity, thinking about, you know, the future you want to see is is such an important part of getting that message across in a way that people can walk away with. um under hearing you and understanding you and and hopefully voting for you or whatever whatever you want them to do.
Josh Klemons: right? Changing their hearts and minds, right?
Bill Worley: Yeah.
Josh Klemons: No, I love it.
Bill Worley: Yeah. Yeah.
Josh Klemons: Well, thanks all so much for coming on. It was awesome meeting y’all uh at Netroots and uh I’ve enjoyed continuing the conversation, so I really appreciate it.
Mark Kendall: Thank you, Josh.
Bill Worley: Thank you so much.
Mark Kendall: Appreciate it.
Bill Worley: Appreciate you.
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